How the Anti-Moé Brigade Has Prevented a Genuine Dialogue About Moé

The Anti-Moé Brigade, for all their touted intellectualism, has, for the most part, been very resistant to any actual discussion about moé. They’ll certainly talk about how much it moé sucks and how horrible it is that we aren’t getting more REDLINEs and Cowboy Bebops, but when it comes to actually discussing moé, intellectualism seems to take a back seat to plain old anti-otakuism.

(Bonus content at the bottom, courtesy of the Anti-Moé Brigade)

The fact is, otaku are important to the moé dialogue. How can we talk about moé without the moé fans? It seems counter-intuitive. With how often the Anti-Moé Brigade talks about moé (however negatively) and with their heavy lean toward intellectualism, it seems like a step backward to vilify moé fans like they’re prone to doing, at least at first glance. Take a deeper look at how the Anti-Moé Brigade reacts when challenged and it’s easy to see that they aren’t interested in a genuine dialogue about moé at all. All they’re interested in is promoting their own agenda.

Under the guise of intellectualism, they’ve managed to shut out any earnest discussion about moé, painting it and its fans as anti-intellectual. They’re free to spout whatever anti-moé sentiment they want, because they’ve successfully convinced people that they are the intellectuals against the anti-intellectuals. They’ve ingrained a sense of “nerd hierarchy” into the fandom.

It’s become the norm among Western anime fans (especially the Anti-Moé Brigade) to vilify moé otaku. It’s easy to look at an otaku with his dakimakura and say “what a weirdo,” but it’s important to consider that moé otaku are the current majority market for anime. Like it or not, their input is important, especially in the current moé-dominated anime climate. In addition, being the dominant force in the anime market today, moé deserves earnest discussion, and the Anti-Moé Brigade has been instrumental in not only preventing this discourse from occurring, but also in driving the Western fanbase toward an anti-moé mindset.

It’s easy to see in the way the Anti-Moé Brigade approaches moé. Various negative connotations have been associated with moé by the Anti-Moé Brigade. Moé is “sexist.” It’s “manipulative,” and based around the concept of “weak, dependent women.” It’s “fetishistic,” “pedophilic,” and it “enables bad storytelling.” It’s “niche,” a “suicidal” business model. It’s somehow the cause of Japan’s declining birthrate (#1: Aren’t birthrates in developed countries supposed to be low? #2: How are moé otaku such a “niche” consumer base, but at the same time a large enough group to actually matter to Japan’s birthrate in a major way?). They spread biased misinformation about moé without bothering to get the real story from those who know best: The fans themselves.

However, when the moé fandom steps up to defend moé, the Anti-Moé Brigade accuses them of personalizing the issue. Somehow, the Anti-Moé Brigade is free from criticism because they’re insulting the shows, not the fans, oblivious to the fact that when they call a show sexist or pedophilic, it carries the implication that the show’s fans are sexists or pedophiles. Any attempt to argue moé’s merits is met with dismissal or hostility.

Moé otaku are ostracized from the anime discussion at large. Hug pillow owners need not apply. The moé “discussion” carries on without arguably the most important people to said discussion, the moé fans. It’s irresponsible and, ultimately, it hurts anime fandom discourse, as it prevents proper discussion about a major element of the anime medium. For all their touted intellectualism, the Anti-Moé Brigade is arguably engaging in the same anti-intellectualism they accuse the moé fandom of promoting. The active refusal to include moé fans in the moé discussion severely limits the understandings we can reach about the medium that both moé fans and the Anti-Moé Brigade share fandom of.

As long as the Anti-Moé Brigade continues to promote the image of otaku as the “others,” as long as they continue to pathologize otaku because of what they enjoy and how they enjoy it, there can be no genuine dialogue about moé. In the current fandom climate, moé fans are faced with a difficult choice: Either wall themselves off from the rest of the fandom, or face undue ridicule, simply because they’re moé fans. This helps nobody but the Anti-Moé Brigade.

If the so-called “intellectuals” refuse to level with the moé fandom to genuinely discuss moé, then it falls upon the moé fandom to push back and reclaim their rightful spot as equals in the anime fandom. Only then, when all parts of anime fandom can get together as equals, can we have a genuine, earnest dialogue about moé.

 

‘Till next time!

 

 

Timeenforceranubis

 

Edit: My point proven exactly -> http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,209575,242350#REPLY (Scroll up a bit to see the whole post)

Isn’t it funny how the Anti-Moé Brigade argues that they do want to earnestly discuss this stuff (And, of course, that it’s the moé fandom that refuses to level with them), but doesn’t bother to drop a comment to the guy who accuses them of being resistant to discussion, and instead chooses to dissent on their own forum, as if that’s going to bring about the kind of change they want to see in the fandom?

These guys are making this way too easy.

13 Replies to “How the Anti-Moé Brigade Has Prevented a Genuine Dialogue About Moé”

  1. Good article. You do bring up some good points and that I do not see some real good conversations about moe being asked around when the topic comes out. Usually it is the moe is ruining everything and it’s killing the industry type stuff.

  2. I know that feeling of going through something like that. I used to have a friend who was pretty open-minded about anime. Then, a few years back, he started to have this mindset that all moe anime are for, what he proudly calls, weeaboos. He even sent a link to an article via ED. We are not on speaking terms anymore.

    I definitely agree with you about the whole “fans insult the shows, not the fans” subject, because at the end of the day, the fans do get insulted in an indirect way. I’ve had people give me flack, based on the fact that I had a Strike Witches avatar, yet I mentioned nothing about it. And I have yet to see a legit response as to why they don’t like Strike Witches other than the obvious. Nopy’s review of the show, while I don’t agree with his opinion, he was honest and gave a legit reason why he didn’t like it, which is something these Anti-Moe losers seem to lack.

  3. I agree, I really hate it when people that say that moe is a niche market but then complain how it dominates everything,

    Now REDLINE, that’s super niche because no one in Japan gave a shit and the only ones on the western front that do are the ones that say “I got into anime through Akira and nothing else impressed from there on.”

  4. The problem with most western fans is that they don’t look hard enough for the shows they claim to love and assume that moe dominates everything just because it gets the most attention.

    As to how Redline is super niche and somehow people here think that it’s better than an established franchise like Evangelion is beyond comprehension.

  5. Reposting this here, since Vince apparently likes to repost your article to our message board but then fails to reply to criticisms on the article (makes me wonder why he posts it in the first place, if not to discuss it):

    Vincent Z. Wrote:
    ——————————————————-
    > Wise words from my otaku friend.
    >
    > http://sheslostcontrol.net/moe/?p=270

    This domain name is deliciously ironic, considering the subject and the article’s issues.

    Selected quotes:

    [quote]The Anti-Moé Brigade, for all their touted intellectualism, has, for the most part, been very resistant to any actual discussion about moé. They’ll certainly talk about how much it moé sucks and how horrible it is that we aren’t getting more REDLINEs and Cowboy Bebops, but when it comes to actually discussing moé, intellectualism seems to take a back seat to plain old anti-otakuism.[/quote]

    Yes, because when the other party doesn’t say exactly what you want them to say, the proper reaction is to switch the discussion to their person. Instead of, you know, addressing the points they make (that you dislike and perhaps don’t wish to hear).

    So in this case, you paint them as creepy intellectuals who, gosh, [i]dare[/i] to criticise your shut-in stance with regards to moe.

    [quote]Under the guise of intellectualism, they’ve managed to shut out any earnest discussion about moé, painting it and its fans as anti-intellectual. They’re free to spout whatever anti-moé sentiment they want, because they’ve successfully convinced people that they are the intellectuals against the anti-intellectuals. They’ve ingrained a sense of “nerd hierarchy” into the fandom.[/quote]

    The hypocrisy in this quote is just so flagrant.

    The whole article is essentially a demonstration of exactly that “nerd hierarchy”, by attempting to elevate certain people in the anime fandom above others because ‘obviously’ moe is superior to other genres. And that pro-moe opinion cannot be wrong, no siree, no, never, it is the only truth out there, and anyone who dislikes it is a evil intellectual who needs to shut the fuck up.

    [quote]It’s become the norm among Western anime fans (especially the Anti-Moé Brigade) to vilify moé otaku.[/quote]

    Pot, meet kettle.

    The rest of this paragraph ain’t better:

    [quote]It’s easy to look at an otaku with his dakimakura and say “what a weirdo,”[/quote]

    Frankly, the dakimakuras with clothed characters on them are fairly okay, it’s when they have hentai pictures on them that it gets disturbing, as those are effectively the cushion equivalent of a blow-up doll. I.e. “Virgin who won’t ever get laid as long as that thing is in plain view”. The interesting thing is that on the Dutch anime forum I read now and then the people who buy these things aknowledge that and keep them locked away in a separate room or cupboard – implicit suggestion they know it is not seen as socially acceptable?

    [quote] but it’s important to consider that moé otaku are the current majority market for anime.[/quote]

    Statistics? Sources?

    [quote] Like it or not, their input is important, especially in the current moé-dominated anime climate. In addition, being the dominant force in the anime market today, moé deserves earnest discussion, and the Anti-Moé Brigade has been instrumental in not only preventing this discourse from occurring, but also in driving the Western fanbase toward an anti-moé mindset.[/quote]

    “Earnest discussion” doesn’t equal “no discussion about the negative aspects whatsoever”.

    The next paragraph is worse:

    [quote]It’s easy to see in the way the Anti-Moé Brigade approaches moé. Various negative connotations have been associated with moé by the Anti-Moé Brigade. Moé is “sexist.” It’s “manipulative,”; and based around the concept of “weak, dependent women.” It’s “fetishistic,” “pedophilic,” [/quote]

    …because it accuses those eviiiiiiiil anti-moe “intellectuals” of things the moe-lovers readily admit themselves in the various comment sections of various image boards.

    [quote]and it “enables bad storytelling.” It’s “niche,”; a “suicidal” business model.[/quote]

    Nice escalation of terms. Note the ‘subtle’ switch from complaints about the contents of the moe animes to complaints about the business model. The reason it is a suicidal business model is that there are too many companies competing for the same small market, a market that will shrink further as the number of ties between that market and other anime markets are cut further as the companies focus more and more on those key aspects of this particular genre while ignoring that appeal to other markets is important to make it easy to switch to another line of business when things go wonky!

    [quote] It’s somehow the cause of Japan’s declining birthrate (#1: Aren’t birthrates in developed countries supposed to be low? #2: How are moé otaku such a “niche” consumer base, but at the same time a large enough group to actually matter to Japan’s birthrate in a major way?). They spread biased misinformation about moé without bothering to get the real story from those who know best: The fans themselves.[/quote]

    Yay, switch of cause and effect! Incomplete simplification of a real-life social problem that has serious implications! And obviously the fans themselves know best, that’s why so many of them are successfully running businesses that produce tons and tons of highly successful series that bring in tons of money! Oh wait…

    [quote]However, when the moé fandom steps up to defend moé, the Anti-Moé Brigade accuses them of personalizing the issue.[/quote]

    As this article effectively self-demonstrates. Genious.

    [quote] Somehow, the Anti-Moé Brigade is free from criticism because they’re insulting the shows, not the fans, oblivious to the fact that when they call a show sexist or pedophilic, it carries the implication that the show’s fans are sexists or pedophiles. [/quote]

    This is a total misrepresentation of this discussion. But then it is known that biased people will only read/hear what they want to hear and happily skip whatever doesn’t fit into their picture.

    [quote]Any attempt to argue moé’s merits is met with dismissal or hostility.[/quote]

    If those arguments would actually tell us what you appreciate in moe, instead of repeating all those vile points of criticism and putting them in a positive light without much further thought…*sigh*

    Give us an in-depth reasoning of what appeals to you in moe. If you appreciate the fact that the girls are all cute and bubbly that is fine, but don’t feel attacked when we point out the real-life implications of such. When we discuss mecha or an anime with complicated political context, no one starts to accuse us of being anti-mecha or anti-politics when we point out that certain things wouldn’t work like that in real-life situations.

    [quote]Moé otaku are ostracized from the anime discussion at large. [/quote]

    Direct contradiction of “but it’s important to consider that moé otaku are the current majority market for anime.”

    [quote]If the so-called “intellectuals” refuse to level with the moé fandom to genuinely discuss moé, then it falls upon the moé fandom to push back and reclaim their rightful spot as equals in the anime fandom. Only then, when all parts of anime fandom can get together as equals, can we have a genuine, earnest dialogue about moé.[/quote]

    We don’t need to level up with you, as long as you don’t attempt to level up with us. A good discussion requires effort from both parties, so we (us and you) need to level up to each other.

    1. I actually had the balls to read that post. *shudders* I probably shouldn’t get involved in this, but I am…

      @Thomas

      “Yes, because when the other party doesn’t say exactly what you want them to say, the proper reaction is to switch the discussion to their person. Instead of, you know, addressing the points they make (that you dislike and perhaps don’t wish to hear).

      So in this case, you paint them as creepy intellectuals who, gosh, dare to criticise your shut-in stance with regards to moe.”

      I fail to see the point you’re trying to make. From what I’ve seen from people like you, the only thing you guys tend to focus on is the “fanservice” or the character designs that offends you so much. All you guys say is *inserttitlehere* sucks because it’s moe and…*goesonfiveminuterantofoveranalyzation* Also, labeling us moe fans as “shut-ins” doesn’t make you look professional, nor intellectual. It just goes to prove how ignorant you are of the situation. My taste in anime ranges from Lupin III to K-On!! and I got to college on my usual basis. So yeah, we’re shut ins alright.

      “The hypocrisy in this quote is just so flagrant.

      The whole article is essentially a demonstration of exactly that “nerd hierarchy”, by attempting to elevate certain people in the anime fandom above others because ‘obviously’ moe is superior to other genres. And that pro-moe opinion cannot be wrong, no siree, no, never, it is the only truth out there, and anyone who dislikes it is a evil intellectual who needs to shut the fuck up.”

      He didn’t mention anything about “Moe is the best and nothing more.” I’m not the strictest moe fan. While I do love shows like K-On! and Strike Witches, I can’t say I’m fond of something like Rokyubu or Lucky Star. The reason why is because I’m not really into all shows that are slice-of-life unless they have something that catches my interest. Rather, it is people like you who spread your hatred amongst others just because they don’t like Redline, which was mediocre in my opinion.

      “Frankly, the dakimakuras with clothed characters on them are fairly okay, it’s when they have hentai pictures on them that it gets disturbing, as those are effectively the cushion equivalent of a blow-up doll. I.e. “Virgin who won’t ever get laid as long as that thing is in plain view”. The interesting thing is that on the Dutch anime forum I read now and then the people who buy these things aknowledge that and keep them locked away in a separate room or cupboard – implicit suggestion they know it is not seen as socially acceptable?”

      What other people do or like is none of your business. So why should it matter? If I had one I’d keep it as a souvenir. Also, calling us “Virgins” all while nothing nothing else about us, is only strengthening TEAnubis’es point, proving that you Anti-Moe losers are a bunch of fucking hypocrites.

      “Statistics? Sources?”

      He’s referring to fans in Japan, not overly intellectual egotistical assholes like you.

      “Earnest discussion” doesn’t equal “no discussion about the negative aspects whatsoever”.

      Like Redline, a film that you consider the “holy grail of anime?” A film that, despite having really great and impressive 2-D animation, has a rather bare-bones story structure? Also, you sound more like someone who only focuses on the negative rather than other aspects of a show/movie that make it good. And given your love for Redline, you deny the fact that the story is bare-bones minimum.

      “…because it accuses those eviiiiiiiil anti-moe “intellectuals” of things the moe-lovers readily admit themselves in the various comment sections of various image boards.”

      You’re stupidity and ignorance baffles me. There’s a difference between moe and lolicon. Get your terms straight. Also, I’m one whose more fond of moe characters who are strong and independent, something an egotistical asshole like yourself doesn’t want to see, so maybe you’re just as “sexist” as I am? And all moe characters are not underage. You probably must have never seen a moe anime, or are you too ignorant?

      “Nice escalation of terms. Note the ‘subtle’ switch from complaints about the contents of the moe animes to complaints about the business model. The reason it is a suicidal business model is that there are too many companies competing for the same small market, a market that will shrink further as the number of ties between that market and other anime markets are cut further as the companies focus more and more on those key aspects of this particular genre while ignoring that appeal to other markets is important to make it easy to switch to another line of business when things go wonky!”

      You must be living under a rock. If moe is the majority, then why do we have titles like Steins Gate, Blue Exocist, Kaiji, Fate Zero, Sacred Zeven, Marvel animes and Deadman Wonderland? Also, care to explain why Redline flopped, or are you gonna blame moe for that as well?

      “Yay, switch of cause and effect! Incomplete simplification of a real-life social problem that has serious implications! And obviously the fans themselves know best, that’s why so many of them are successfully running businesses that produce tons and tons of highly successful series that bring in tons of money! Oh wait…”

      I’m not even gonna bother to comment on that. It’s just too stupid for words.

      “As this article effectively self-demonstrates. Genious.”

      Seriously, go back to pleasuring yourself with memes. Because that’s all you do when it comes to the issue itself.

      “This is a total misrepresentation of this discussion. But then it is known that biased people will only read/hear what they want to hear and happily skip whatever doesn’t fit into their picture.”

      Like you and Redline? Seriously get a fucking room.

      “If those arguments would actually tell us what you appreciate in moe, instead of repeating all those vile points of criticism and putting them in a positive light without much further thought…*sigh*

      Give us an in-depth reasoning of what appeals to you in moe. If you appreciate the fact that the girls are all cute and bubbly that is fine, but don’t feel attacked when we point out the real-life implications of such. When we discuss mecha or an anime with complicated political context, no one starts to accuse us of being anti-mecha or anti-politics when we point out that certain things wouldn’t work like that in real-life situations.”

      Given that you assume that all moe anime are the same, I pity you.

      “Direct contradiction of “but it’s important to consider that moé otaku are the current majority market for anime.”

      Once again, he’s referring to anime fans in Japan. It’s egotistical scum like you who give us flack for what we like.

      “We don’t need to level up with you, as long as you don’t attempt to level up with us. A good discussion requires effort from both parties, so we (us and you) need to level up to each other.”

      Further implying that you’re better than us because you like Redline or any pre-2000 anime, and we don’t have the same love of it as you do.

      Yeah, real deep intellectual stuff asshole.

    2. Yes, because when the other party doesn’t say exactly what you want them to say, the proper reaction is to switch the discussion to their person. Instead of, you know, addressing the points they make (that you dislike and perhaps don’t wish to hear).

      So in this case, you paint them as creepy intellectuals who, gosh, [i]dare[/i] to criticise your shut-in stance with regards to moe.

      You’re missing the point and extrapolating far too much. What I’m saying is that the Anti-Moe Brigade’s behaviour is anti-intellectual. That they pretend to be intellectuals. Its not that they make points that I don’t want to hear, it’s that they don’t want to hear the points moe fans are making.

      The hypocrisy in this quote is just so flagrant.

      The whole article is essentially a demonstration of exactly that “nerd hierarchy”, by attempting to elevate certain people in the anime fandom above others because ‘obviously’ moe is superior to other genres. And that pro-moe opinion cannot be wrong, no siree, no, never, it is the only truth out there, and anyone who dislikes it is a evil intellectual who needs to shut the fuck up.

      Where did I say any of this? Moe is superior? Pro-moe opinion is always right? No and no. I’m saying that the Anti-Moe Brigade has managed to successfully convince large parts of the fandom that moe is terrible and its fans are terrible.

      Pot, meet kettle.

      The rest of this paragraph ain’t better:

      I’m sorry, but that’s the case as I’m seeing it.

      Frankly, the dakimakuras with clothed characters on them are fairly okay, it’s when they have hentai pictures on them that it gets disturbing, as those are effectively the cushion equivalent of a blow-up doll. I.e. “Virgin who won’t ever get laid as long as that thing is in plain view”. The interesting thing is that on the Dutch anime forum I read now and then the people who buy these things aknowledge that and keep them locked away in a separate room or cupboard – implicit suggestion they know it is not seen as socially acceptable?

      Question. Why does it always come down to getting laid when it comes to you Anti-Moe Brigade people? You’re making a big deal out of this as if people who own hug pillows are somehow preventing you from getting laid.

      Statistics? Sources?

      Everyone (Especially the Anti-Moe Brigade) says that moe is the current majority, and looking at what anime have come out and what anime have been big in the past few years, I’m inclined to believe them.

      “Earnest discussion” doesn’t equal “no discussion about the negative aspects whatsoever”.

      The next paragraph is worse:

      Again, I don’t understand where you’re getting this from. I never said that I don’t want discussion about the negative aspects. I’m saying that an actual moe discussion should involve the fans of moe, something that the Anti-Moe Brigade has been working against.

      …because it accuses those eviiiiiiiil anti-moe “intellectuals” of things the moe-lovers readily admit themselves in the various comment sections of various image boards.

      I’m just repeating what the Anti-Moe Brigade has said about moe.

      Nice escalation of terms. Note the ‘subtle’ switch from complaints about the contents of the moe animes to complaints about the business model. The reason it is a suicidal business model is that there are too many companies competing for the same small market, a market that will shrink further as the number of ties between that market and other anime markets are cut further as the companies focus more and more on those key aspects of this particular genre while ignoring that appeal to other markets is important to make it easy to switch to another line of business when things go wonky!

      I’m sorry, but that doesn’t work. A real suicidal business model would be to try to appeal to demographics that have, in the past, been unreliable consumers. I’m sorry, but it makes sense to serve the people who are willing to give you money, as opposed to the people who aren’t.

      Yay, switch of cause and effect! Incomplete simplification of a real-life social problem that has serious implications! And obviously the fans themselves know best, that’s why so many of them are successfully running businesses that produce tons and tons of highly successful series that bring in tons of money! Oh wait…

      Simplification is exactly what the Anti-Moe Brigade is doing when they say that moe is somehow the cause of Japan’s declining birthrate. It’s a complex problem with a lot of factors contributing to it, not just moe.

      So, what’s your point? The moe fandom should continue to be shut out because they’re not successful anime industry workers?

      As this article effectively self-demonstrates. Genious.

      That’s exactly what they do. I’m personalizing an already personal issue here.

      This is a total misrepresentation of this discussion. But then it is known that biased people will only read/hear what they want to hear and happily skip whatever doesn’t fit into their picture.

      I’m just laying bare what the Anti-Moe Brigade says.

      If those arguments would actually tell us what you appreciate in moe, instead of repeating all those vile points of criticism and putting them in a positive light without much further thought…*sigh*

      Give us an in-depth reasoning of what appeals to you in moe. If you appreciate the fact that the girls are all cute and bubbly that is fine, but don’t feel attacked when we point out the real-life implications of such. When we discuss mecha or an anime with complicated political context, no one starts to accuse us of being anti-mecha or anti-politics when we point out that certain things wouldn’t work like that in real-life situations.

      We’ve tried to explain moe, but, as I’ve said, it’s always met with dismissal or hostility. The Anti-Moe Brigade doesn’t want to discuss pro-moe sentiment.

      Direct contradiction of “but it’s important to consider that moé otaku are the current majority market for anime.”

      No, they are ostracized, even though it’s currently the majority market in Japan. These two things aren’t mutually exclusive.

      We don’t need to level up with you, as long as you don’t attempt to level up with us. A good discussion requires effort from both parties, so we (us and you) need to level up to each other.

      Way to play the victim. A lot of the moe fandom is ready to discuss moe on equal terms. The Anti-Moe Brigade doesn’t want this. They want complete ostracism of the moe fandom. They want to actively discourage enjoying moe. As long as this is the case, it’s them who need to level with moe fans.

  6. Copy and pasted what I wrote there:

    Ok, I’ll discuss.

    Many here who criticizes seem to think that those who watch moe are terrible people. I see nothing wrong for liking cute characters. The key is that my tastes are far ranging and I’m able to watch old and new anime. Some things I watch can even be devoid of any cuteness. I still refuse to watch LOTGH though.

    The other notion is painting ALL moe shows the same when there’s various ranges of quality. There are shows that I legitimately enjoy for their high production values and the synergy of all the elements of a good show (art, music, characters that I’m able to get attach to, premise, the studio behind the production).

    Moe shows I legitimately love: K-ON!, Lucky Star, Kanamemo, Strike Witches, most things from Studio SHAFT like Hidamari Sketch and Bakemonogatari/Nisemonogatari.

    Moe shows I enjoy for their stupidness: MM!, Milky Holmes

    I see a lot of discussion about moe but not of actually watching it to understand it.

    Again, I’m not forcing anyone to love moe, that not my goal here.

    My goal is to make others at least understand me and other points of view without the usual “x is creepy. X is perverted” for liking it.

  7. LOL, and now they’re recommending Planetes and Moonlight Mile for having NO moe with there pedantic sci-fi on that board.

    And they’re adding fuel to the fire for Anubis’ argument that you can’t engage in conversation about moe without it erupting into WWIII.

  8. “Yes, because when the other party doesn’t say exactly what you want them to say, the proper reaction is to switch the discussion to their person. Instead of, you know, addressing the points they make (that you dislike and perhaps don’t wish to hear).

    So in this case, you paint them as creepy intellectuals who, gosh, dare to criticise your shut-in stance with regards to moe.”

    You must not know about the other articles that anubis writes where he clearly states what you don’t like about moe. He has refuted countless times that moe doesn’t = lolicon which is what the main issue is when it comes to westerners hatred of moe.

    “The hypocrisy in this quote is just so flagrant.

    The whole article is essentially a demonstration of exactly that “nerd hierarchy”, by attempting to elevate certain people in the anime fandom above others because ‘obviously’ moe is superior to other genres. And that pro-moe opinion cannot be wrong, no siree, no, never, it is the only truth out there, and anyone who dislikes it is a evil intellectual who needs to shut the fuck up.”

    Since when have we been condescending to you? Just because I like moe doesn’t mean that I am any better than any other anime fan I have my tastes and you have yours. However when you talk about Ghost in the Shell or Akira all of sudden your the ones who act all high and mighty because you watch “Intellectual Anime”. Also we moe fans aren’t all one dimensional and like other genres in anime so your point is moot. For all the complaining about us “vilifying you” you seem to be doing the same thing.

    “Statistics? Sources?”

    Ever hear of animenewsnetwork? titles such as Madoka Magica, Bakemonogatari, and K-On! Are definitely pulling their weight with Japanese otaku and both Madoka and K-On which helps support the industry. Then again when something like Morbito Guardian of the Spirit something that western fans could enjoy is taken off the air because of low ratings it’s hard to take you guys seriously. And while we are on the subject why don’t you claim to support the shows you claim to love? Why are distrubution companies here shutting down it’s in part because you don’t support them and it’s sad because they know what you want. The evidence points out that Japanese Otaku are supporting the industry and that you aren’t doing your fair share!

    “because it accuses those eviiiiiiiil anti-moe “intellectuals” of things the moe-lovers readily admit themselves in the various comment sections of various image boards.”

    And what business is that of yours? There are a minor majority of the whole American otaku fandom. Not to mention that lolicon doesn’t equal pedophila there is no evidence linking it to pedophila it’s a harmless vice for adults.

    “This is a total misrepresentation of this discussion. But then it is known that biased people will only read/hear what they want to hear and happily skip whatever doesn’t fit into their picture.”

    Like Redline? Like Evangelion? How are you any different?! How are people blinded by nostalgia any different everyone is biased quit trying to make yourself out to be the superior objecive observer!

    “If those arguments would actually tell us what you appreciate in moe, instead of repeating all those vile points of criticism and putting them in a positive light without much further thought…*sigh*

    “Give us an in-depth reasoning of what appeals to you in moe. If you appreciate the fact that the girls are all cute and bubbly that is fine, but don’t feel attacked when we point out the real-life implications of such. When we discuss mecha or an anime with complicated political context, no one starts to accuse us of being anti-mecha or anti-politics when we point out that certain things wouldn’t work like that in real-life situations.”

    We have you just ignore them and last time when I checked mecha political shows are demonized as moe is.

    “Direct contradiction of “but it’s important to consider that moé otaku are the current majority market for anime.”

    How? moe is niche here and we are demonized for what we love.

    “We don’t need to level up with you, as long as you don’t attempt to level up with us. A good discussion requires effort from both parties, so we (us and you) need to level up to each other.”

    When you’re ready to admit your faults then you can talk to me otherwise this nothing more than waste of time. And this folks is why I don’t waste my time with anti-moe fans!

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