The Hypocrisy of the Anti-Loli/Shota Crusade

Icon-MOEPodcast Zero’s Kyuubethe3rd directed me to a YouTube video not too long ago. Apart from being the average unfunny hyperbolic kind of garbage that’s a dime a dozen on YouTube, it made the attempt at debunking the comparison between people saying lolicon causes pedophilia and people saying violent videogames cause real violence.

The gentleman’s first major point is that the difference between violent videogames and loli/shota material, and the thing that blows the entire comparison between the two out of the water, is that, even though violent videogames may have the player commit robberies, grisly murders, assassinations, or acts or terrorism, the fact that videogames are about entertainment, competition, relaxing, enjoying some time off, skill, accuracy, challenges, story, character development, and creating a world to explore, means that there can’t be any parallels drawn between videogames and something as “gross,” “sick,” and “disgusting” as loli or shota.

Except that isn’t the point, and never was.

Don’t get me wrong. Gaming is one of my earliest passions, and still one of my strongest. I’ve been playing videogames, including violent videogames, since I was five years old, playing Alien vs. Predator on the Atari Jaguar. I love gaming, and wouldn’t dream of minimizing it as a choice of hobby, but let’s live in the real world for just a second.

I’m a big fan of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. I think it’s the best game in the franchise, to be quite honest. Even the linear single-player campaign finds me replaying the missions over and over because they’re so fun and engaging to me.

But I won’t balk at the fact that it’s a remarkably violent game.

The Only Easy Day...Was YesterdayOne of the missions in Act II involves infiltrating an oil rig with a group of US Navy SEALs. The very first thing you do in that mission is yank a guard off of a platform into the water and slice his throat out as he struggles to get free, before casually pushing him down into the depths and continuing your mission.

Just Like Old TimesOne of the missions in Act III has you abseil headfirst down a cliff face and ambush a guard, quickly jamming a knife into his chest and clamping a hand over his mouth until he’s silenced. You can literally watch the life drain from his eyes.

No RussianAnd that’s not to mention the infamous “No Russian” sequence, an optional mission in which the player, as part of a deep-cover CIA operation, takes part in a terrorist attack on an airport.

If all of this is okay in a videogame, which it is, then how come loli and shota are such huge problems? The context for the argument is is exactly the same: Stuff that would be wrong in real life is okay when it isn’t real. However, because they’re not-real children, it becomes an issue. The context is arbitrarily rendered irrelevant because the content is subjectively “wrong.” Not only that, but because the content is drawn children, liking loli or shota means you think sexually abusing actual kids is okay.

(As an aside, one could actually make the argument that that kind of leap would more readily apply to violent videogames as, being interactive, the player must trigger the action that pulls the guard from the platform and slices his throat out. It’s still a stupid argument, but it holds more water than “liking this cartoon means you rape kids.”)

So, context doesn’t matter. Why not? Because this guy doesn’t think it matters. His entire position is predicated on his audience already believing that loli and shota are disgusting. He, like the rest of the people who constantly crusade against loli and shota, has become so complacent with his “moral high ground” that his ability to back up his own position has atrophied, similar to what happens to an astronaut’s muscles after an extended time in zero-g.

So, he’ll argue that lolicon and shotacon breed actual child abusers without giving any basis for that, and he’ll argue that this stuff he doesn’t like is wrong and shouldn’t exist, despite the fact that it doesn’t hurt anybody.

Oh, but he’s worried. He’s worried about what you might do in the future because you enjoy lolicon or shotacon. According to him, we’re all just one episode of Boku no Pico away from being that creepy guy hanging around outside the elementary school.

But when we hear that the Navy Yard Shooter played violent videogames, the narrative is that the violence in videogames has nothing to do with violent behaviour. Gamers were quick to decry Jack Thompson and his crusade against “murder simulators,” but it seems like some gamers are just as quick to jump onto the other side of the battle lines when something they don’t like is at stake.

They have a very selective application of the separation of fantasy and reality. Understand that those two moments from Modern Warfare 2 that I mentioned earlier are some of my favorite sequences in the entire game. Those kind of stealthy, quick assassinations straight out of a military action movie, played out in first-person excite me big-time. These particular people, who would argue that violent videogames and loli/shota are two different arguments, would argue that my love for yanking sentries into the ocean and venting their necks with a knife in Modern Warfare 2 is perfectly normal precisely because it’s a fantasy, but, in the same breath, would also argue that a show like Astarotte’s Toy is “evil,” and that people who like it are sick in the head.

The notion that these two issues are different is hypocritical at best, intellectually bankrupt at worst. It’s a populist argument, based on nothing but basic personal preference and moral outrage. People like videogames, so they’re quick to say that videogames aren’t bad for people. People don’t like loli and shota, so they’re quick to say that loli and shota are bad for people, even though the principle is the exact same: The notion that fantasy does not equal reality, and that people should be able to like whatever they like, so long as nobody is hurt by it.

It’s okay to not like lolicon and shotacon. It’s okay to hate them, even. What you like or hate has no real bearing on anything. The point where it’s not okay, however, is when you begin to advocate persecuting people for things they have not done, or things you think they might do, because of what they like.

We have a word for that: Thoughtcrime.

Gamers fought the “Gamers are murderers” narrative years ago. Now some of them are perpetuating an almost identical narrative toward loli/shota fans, and for almost the same reason: They don’t like it and don’t understand it.

My message to these people is simple: Grow up.

6 thoughts on “The Hypocrisy of the Anti-Loli/Shota Crusade”

  1. This reminds me of a forum on MAL I read about a guy who was arrested in Canada for viewing lolicon on a plane. In that forum, there was an individual (who was sexually assaulted as a child, by the way) who took the side of lolicon should be illegal. He also made an attempt to debunk the video games and lolicon comparison by saying that lolicon is created as a replacement for child pornography and sexually assaulting children while violent video games are not a replacement for an individual’s desire to murder. He also called the thoughtcrime argument “nonsensical” because he said it was a totally different concept in George Orwell’s 1984 because in that book, thoughtcrimes weren’t based off what society thought was wrong, but what Big Brother thought was wrong. He also called the “it’s not hurting anyone” argument nonsensical because you have no way of knowing if a lolicon artist could be using a real life naked child as a model to draw his art.

    Quite frankly, I think this person’s logic is flawed. So, lolicon is created as a way to get off to an image of a pseudo, he says? Well, what about hentai like Bondage Game? Aren’t the people who get off to that hentai just getting off to pseudo women being tortured? What about furries? Aren’t they just getting off to images of pseudo animals? What about tentacles? Aren’t they just getting off to what appears to be bestiality? What about voraphiles? Don’t they just get off to images of pseudo cannibalism? If you believe there is a difference between Bondage Game and lolicon, then please tell me what it is because I’d really like to know. Is it just because Bondage Game involves fictional adults and lolicon involves fictional children? That seems like a double standard to me, especially if you see lolicon involving happy consensual sex as evil, while torture porn like Bondage Game is perfectly acceptable.

    And to make a comment about using naked children as models for drawing cartoons, I wonder if some of these anti loli people know that the Japanese view nudity different from how we do it. Because I’ve seen children’s anime like Doraemon and Dragonball where the children are nude in a nonsexual way. If people who draw lolicon are using children as models, then would that also apply to Doraemon and Dragonball? Or is it just because in lolicon, the children are sexualized?

    The difference between child pornography and lolicon, as said millions of times before, is that in child pornography, real children are being violently raped and could result in being permanently psychologically damaged for the rest of their lives. In lolicon, nobody is being raped and nobody is being scarred for life. Even if a person is getting off to an image of a drawn child, what is the harm? Someone please explain to me how a drawing of a sexualized child turns into the pain and suffering of a real one. I genuinely don’t understand.

    This whole lolicon argument genuinely gets me angry to be honest. There is only so much flawed logic one person can take, and I don’t think it’s healthy to constantly talk about things that make one angry. All I want is to just enjoy my cartoons in peace. But I can’t just stay silent when I read stories like Christopher Handley’s where he was arrested for “obscenity” when he imported loli manga from Japan. We as loli fans need to spread awareness so that nobody else could also be arrested over something as trivial as a fucking cartoon.

    1. @Drawingirl 94

      I can probably address some of this guy’s criticisms. If he honestly believes that violent video games aren’t cathartic to soothe our violent tendencies then he’s being woefully naive. He forgets that we are still animals at heart and byproducts of our evolution. For his second point, yes Orwell says its Big Government rather than society who is oppressive but it was society who proposed the legislation back in the 1970’s and the Government enforces that societal based law with a mighty oppressive fist seeing as how lolicon is banned in nearly every country except Russia and Japan (here in America its more iffy). And his third and final argument is just nonsense. I seriously doubt that every single fan artist in Japan had some naked little girl modeling for them. Not to mention that if anyone tried that shit in Japan they would be arrested due to the anti-child pornography law of 1999. That law prevents children from being sexually exploited under the threat of death or prison.

      And to answer your question, yes the body of a child is considered a symbol of purity in Japan and is completely sexless.

      The sad reality drawingirl is that the world will never accept lolicon as a good thing. We are the outcasts of society and so as long as you’re a lolicon you’ll never find complete peace. Moral faggotry is pervasive.

      1. Thank you, you have refuted his arguments better than I ever could. I haven’t even read 1984 (although I do plan to in the near future because it sounds like an interesting read, plus I liked Orwell’s Animal Farm too), but even I could tell something was off about his argument. Just because society thinks something is wrong, that doesn’t make it right. Society once thought it was okay to burn people to death because of accusations of being witches, for example.

        As a loli artist myself, I can definitely say that I don’t use real life children as models for my art because I don’t find real children attractive. Most loli artists tend to make their characters a bit curvy around the waist, and as someone who was a little girl once in my life, I can tell you that’s definitely not how real little girls looked like. Little do these anti loli people know that exaggerated proportions are what is considered attractive to many anime fans, including myself. Of course, I still want my drawings to look good, so I actually use other loli art as inspiration, and emulate their style in my work.

        I figured as much, and that’s why I found it odd that we label any child nudity in anime as sexual. It’s like these people don’t even know that different cultures have different mindsets. Hmm…

        That’s probably true and it makes me sad, to be honest. Like I said before, all I ever wanted was to just enjoy my cartoons in peace, but it seems like that’s never going to happen. It genuinely makes me angry that people would equate us to child molesters, when if you knew me in real life, you would know I am a pacifist. I’ve seen documentaries where children talk about their experience of being raped, and whenever I see them cry and the pain in their eyes of having to relive that moment, it breaks my heart into bits and I just want to cry and rip off those rapists’ heads with my bare hands (again, this is coming from a pacifist). And these people think that I want to do that to a defenseless and innocent child? They actually think I want to bring more pain and suffering in a world that already has enough pain as it is? How heartless do these people think we are?

  2. I watched that video and honestly its the same ole bullshit appeal to emotion argument. As I’ve said in the podcast, this isn’t about facts or logic (Which moral faggots like him don’t have) its about morality and protecting children (which if they were real, I would understand). He also doesn’t understand as to why we make that comparison in the first place. We make it because of the sheer hypocrisy that fantasy murder is okay (even if its against children), but fantasy sex that harms nobody isn’t.

    Till the day someone can come up with a non-biased peer reviewed scientific study that establishes a direct link between loli/shouta and the actual sexual abuse of children, everything they say is just pure emotional hypocritical bullshit. If anything, I am pretty sure the study would prove the exact opposite (not that it matters).

    Here’s a link if anyone cares that establishes more of America’s hypocritical moral faggotry.

  3. This reminds me of the shitfit people threw over Mimi Yoon’s variant cover of a Powerpuff Girls comic being “sexualized”. I certainly applaud that artist calling the whining out for what it was, as that was something I found to be the same as this. Problem is that too many people want to try to make it about repercussions in the real world, which in turn, leads to the “thoughtcrime” mentality you speak of, both in terms of the canceled variant, and in regards to the loli/shota debacle.

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